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Event: Interview with Ross Solly, ABC Canberra
Date: 23 April 2025, 8:35am AEST
Speakers: Denita Wawn, CEO of Master Builders Australia
Topics: federal election; housing crisis; tradie shortage
E&OE
Ross Solly, ABC Canberra: Denita Wawn is the chief executive officer of the Master Builders of Australia, and joins us this morning. Denita Wawn, good morning to you.
Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia: Good morning, Ross.
Ross: So we’ve had a couple of texts along this line. People are a little bit worried that, yes, it’s great you’re going to get more tradies out there. But are we running the risk of having tradies out there who may be are not exactly up to the standard that we would expect?
Denita: Yeah, it’s a very important point. But we also need to stress that this program is targeted at those who have worked in the industry for a long period of time, for whatever reason, have not had their skills recognised. They’ve been doing labouring work, they might have done a part apprenticeship and gone on to continue other things. So the program is targeted to those who have some skills but not enough skills to have been qualified as a tradie, and as such, they will have their skills assessed, and the assessor will then determine the gaps in their training, and then they will have targeted training to complete the qualifications necessary to be assessed for a total apprenticeship and be trade qualified. Yeah, so that certainly ensures that we maintain quality.
Ross: Yeah. Sorry Denita Wawn, did you say that some of these people are already working as tradies, even though they’re not fully qualified?
Denita: No, they’re not working as tradies. They may have started an apprenticeship, not completed. We hear many stories of people starting an apprenticeship, going to year two, year three, seeing the brighter lights of mining industry or civil construction, where labouring is quite high wages and so they never actually complete their qualifications. It’s that type of person that we’re very interested in assessing. We also understand it will cover skilled migrants who don’t have their qualifications recognised in Australia, and they will then have the same assessment opportunities and the gap training required. So this is a smart move. It’s a move between the training and how long it takes to get an apprenticeship up from start through to skilled migration. It fits that middle void of getting people quickly qualified without necessarily demeaning the qualification requirements.
Ross: Yeah. Do you know how many people there might be out there who might fit into this gap? How many people there are who have some qualifications but not the full qualifications?
Denita: Yeah, we don’t know the actual number. The number that this program has
estimated that it will fit around about 6,000 people. Now, of course, that’s a drop in the ocean to the 200,000 odd people that we know we need to complete the housing requirements and our infrastructure requirements. Nevertheless, it’s something that we have been asking for, that we recognise people’s skills to ensure that they can get fully qualified as quickly as possible.
Ross: Who would carry out the training? Whose responsibility would that be?
Denita: Well, we’re impressed that the government has recognised not only TAFEs, but also high quality registered training organisations. We know a number of our member associations run registered training organisations with very good outcomes in terms of completion rates. So, it was good to see the government not only recognise the public training provisions, but also private as well. So long as they are deemed high quality.
Ross: Is it going to be enough do you think? Just the possibility of coming back, getting government assistance to get your trading up to speed? Do you think Denita Wawn that alone will be enough to encourage people back to the industry? I assume, as you said, they saw the bright lights. They’ve gone off elsewhere. Why would they then give that up to come back to the industry? Are the incentives enough for people to get into this line of work?
Denita: Well, we know that people find it too cumbersome and too hard. It costs about at least $10,000 to get your assessment done, and then subsequent training usually takes anywhere between 12 to 18 months to actually get assessed and then be able to do that gap training. So the time and effort that is quite under the current system is really a significant barrier for people to do it. This will actually provide the funding for the assessment to be done and the training to be done. So it’s a good incentive for an industry that is going to have an awful lot of work to do over the next decade.
Ross: A couple of texts have just come in, maybe touching on issues which are holding people back. And I’d be interested to get your response. I’ll read these two texts out, Denita Wawn. This listener says, how about stop the slave labour, chronic underpaying by employers as apprentices, then you might get more people in apprenticeships. And somebody else has said, many people work in the industry as labour or trade assistance, possibly taken advantage of by their employers because they don’t hold trade qualifications. What are your thoughts on that?
Denita: I think there’s two important points with that, Ross. First and foremost, when you’re an apprentice, you get paid to train and paid to learn, and that’s why the apprentice rate is assessed as such. It costs actually the employer a lot of money to have an apprentice, and therefore that’s got to be recognised in terms of those costs. If people are getting underpaid, and we know that happens sometimes in our industry, then they should be speaking to the regulators, the Fair Work Ombudsman, to ensure that they are adequately being paid. That is very important for the industry, that everyone is complying with the law.
Ross: Did you think there’s a lot of cowboys out there who may be taking advantage of apprentices?
Denita: We know that there are unfortunately situations where apprentices are taken advantage of. I’ve recently met with a Fair Work Ombudsman, and we will be helping the Fair Work Ombudsman in a campaign to ensure that apprentices know their rights and also ensure that employers know their obligations towards their apprentices.
Ross: Yeah. This is an interesting text, but it may be a bit too I’m not sure if you’d be across this. It’s a Canberra related story. This is from Brendan, Denita Wawn, but I’m sure this will concern you. The long-promised Woden CIT is nearly complete. I think Brendan says most Canberrans would be surprised to learn it won’t be offering traditional hands on tradies training like the building trades. We can’t seem to attract enough young Canberrans to do proper trades training. I mean, this is a Canberra issue, but I wonder whether that’s something you’re hearing nationally?
Denita: Certainly, as a Canberra resident and a son who goes to a trade school in Canberra near the One Centre at Fyshwick, it provides great support, but unsure about the Woden situation. Have to get someone closer to the ACT issues to address that one.
Ross: Yeah, we might do that. Can I just ask you before I let you go Denita Wawn. Both of the major parties have made big promises in terms of the housing industry and what they’re going to be doing, hopefully, to rectify the housing situation here in Australia. Are they both being realistic? Are their goals achievable, or are they really just whistling in the wind at the moment?
Denita: Well, there’s certainly been some good announcements, but the problem is, when you take it holistically, Ross, we’re not seeing a full comprehensive suite of policies that will address the housing crisis. We know that we’ve got to remove structural barriers for us to actually have the capacity to build and at the moment, we’ve got a quagmire of regulation. We’ve got long delays. We don’t have enough people, and of course, there are industrial relations impediments as well. And so each of the parties have addressed some of those things, but not all of those things. We do have our assessment that goes up each week of where we think the parties are standing on policies, and we’ll do our last one in the last week of the campaign.
Ross: All right. Interesting times ahead. Good to chat with you this morning, Denita Wawn. Thank you.
Denita: Thanks Ross as always.
Media contact:
Dee Zegarac
National Director, External Affairs & Engagement
0400 493 071
dee.zegarac@masterbuilders.com.au