- No products in the cart.
Event: Interview with Paul Turton, ABC NSW Mornings
Date: 17 February 2025, 10:15am AEDT
Speakers: Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia
Topics: Federal Election; Productivity Commission Report; Housing Crisis
E&OE
Paul Turton, host ABC NSW Mornings: New analysis of Australia’s housing construction sector suggests it’s only half as efficient as it was three decades ago. How can that be? I mentioned my dear old grandfather. He used to sharpen the saw first half hour on the job every morning. None of that these days. Australia’s independent research and advisory body, the Productivity Commission, has examined two factors, the number of new homes built, and the number of hours worked in the sector. It says productivity in building homes has dropped 53 per cent since 1995 which is adding to the crippling housing affordability crisis experienced around the nation. I thought we’d take this up with Denita Wawn, who’s the CEO of Master Builders Australia, who joins me now. Denita, thanks for coming on. Good morning.
Denita Wawn CEO Master Builders Australia: Good morning. Paul.
Paul: Good. So, how can productivity go backwards in construction? There’s so many new and efficient tools that are available for example.
Denita: Yeah, it’s really sobering reading, unfortunately, but it’s also consistent with what we’ve been saying for a good five years or so now that unfortunately, productivity has waned. It’s predominantly due to over regulation of the industry that’s really inflated costs. It’s been about not enough people in the industry, which means, you know, those 40 odd trades that have to work on a new home, to put simply are not working efficiently in a collaborative way. And that, again, time costs money in this game. And of course, we’ve had industrial relations impediments as well, and we haven’t really kept up with technology and innovation due to the fact that 99 per cent of our industry are small to medium sized businesses. So, a range of issues all constraining supply, which is why we have the housing crisis we do today.
Paul: Denita as a baby boomer, of course, I’ve been issued with my set of rose-coloured glasses, you know, it’s compulsory to look back and see things more favourably than they actually were. But is it a generational thing? For example, I just got a text from one of our regular contributors, Scott, who says, one way to improve productivity on the work site would be to take everyone’s mobile phones away from them, make them do all their phone appointments in the morning or in the afternoon, and then just keep working without having to constantly stop. Is Scott looking back through his rose-coloured glasses?
Denita: Well, I think there’s some value of that and as an employer, I would concur. I think that is an issue that is happening not only on building sites, but workplaces and school classrooms around the country. But certainly, you know this is not just about workers concentration. This is actually about really smart programming, making sure that trades are all coming in, one after the other, that there’s not a break, that they are not restricted in how they work. We know our frustrations, for example, on CFMEU EBAs that the amount of downtime when you’re not being productive has significantly inflated, and which means it can add about three or four months in terms of the time it takes to build a high-rise apartment. So, there’s a plethora of issues there that are impacting productivity, and we’ve identified them and holding, you know, governments at all three levels to account in how to resolve this problem. We know what the solutions are. It’s a matter of the will of the governments now.
Paul: Denita, when talking about downtime of workers, union members or otherwise. One of the issues has been, of course, the supply of materials. You can’t nail stuff up if it isn’t there, for example, is supply contributing to this?
Denita: It’s not actually. It was during COVID, it was a significant issue. But supplied materials has now stabilised. This is more about the supply of people. It’s about, and that includes not only people on building sites, but we know, for example, local government is taking a ridiculous amount of time to get planning approved and building approved because they don’t have enough planners and enough building surveyors. It’s about ensuring that we have all the right skilled people. And the Productivity Commission report does call that out. So, we need an approach where we know the problems, we know the solutions, but too much talk, not enough action really has occurred over the last few decades on this, and we need to ensure and hold governments to account that we’re doing the right thing. And we know, for your listeners in regional Australia, the stories that we hear about their frustrations with local government, local governments frustrated with state government, and then, of course, the feds are not holding state government or local government to account. So, it’s a difficult issue at the moment.
Paul: So, is it just about streamlining the process or what needs to be done in regard to a shortage of workers?
Denita: It’s streamlining the planning and approval process. It’s making the law around development easier without ensuring that we don’t obliterate the safeguards about the community and the environment. It’s about getting more skilled migrants in. We consistently are arguing for a greater number of skilled migrants in building and construction. It’s more apprentices and apprentices completing their skills. A 50 per cent completion rate of apprentices is absolutely unacceptable, and of course, we need our industrial relations laws to have a balance between the wellbeing of the worker, but equally, ensuring that we’re not having totally inappropriate lost time. There’s a range of factors here, and a lot of them will be considered in their upcoming federal election.
Paul: Denita Wawn, what about the attraction of the trades to young people? Why are they on the nose a little? Because they, as Terry, who’s texted in, says tools aren’t the issue. Tools are relatively still cheap. It’s the cost of materials and labour and tradies which seem to average $65 to $85 an hour. Come on, do you or I get that says Terry will ask Terry today. Why is it that there’s not a procession of young kids who want to, you know, want to become tradies?
Denita: Yeah, Terry’s absolutely right. We simply don’t have enough people. And when you don’t have enough people, it costs more. We’ve had decades now of treating doing a trade as you know, a second-class career opportunity, and that’s totally inappropriate, and it’s actually totally wrong. If you go and do an apprenticeship now, you are getting paid to train, unlike going to university, where you’re incurring a massive HECS debt. We know that there are huge career opportunities long term for tradies and so. But the problem is that people are not being encouraged, and they’re also finding it difficult to complete. So, we’ve called for government assistance around those completions, around support for employers. But also today, aptly, we’ve released a guide called Construct Your Career, and that provides really detailed information for students looking at a career in the industry. We’ll be providing it free of charge to all secondary schools, as well as making it available on our website. So, we’re trying to do the right thing, but equally, we need parents and schools to recognise and embrace a career in building and construction.
Paul: Denita Wawn, I appreciate your reflections today. Thanks.
Denita: Thank you so much.
Media contact:
Dee Zegarac
National Director, Media & Public Affairs
0400 493 071
dee.zegarac@masterbuilders.com.au