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Event: Interview with Patricia Karvelas, ABC Radio National
Date: 16 July 2024, 6:53am AEST
Speakers: Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia
Topics: CFMEU investigation
E&OE
Patricia Karvelas, ABC Radio National: A rotten culture that must be pulled out by its roots. They’re the words of Victorian premier Jacinta Allan as she addressed serious allegations of intimidation, bullying and corruption from CFMEU officials. The misconduct has been referred to Victoria police and the state’s anti-corruption commission, while the union’s Victorian branch has been placed into administration. But few from the building industry have been willing to come forward and speak of what’s allegedly been happening behind closed doors. Denita Wawn is the chief executive of Master Builders Australia and joins us now. Denita Welcome to the program.
Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia: Good morning.
Patricia: What do you make of the response from the Victorian premier Jacinta Allan?
Denita: Very welcome. Pleasantly surprised that the premier has taken the stance that she’s taken. Too little too, maybe, too late for our liking, but nevertheless, the investigation that has been aired over the last few days, really has highlighted what we have known about for a long period of time, but people have been too afraid to come forward to provide evidence. And we hope that this is a turning point, to see some changes in people feeling more empowered to go forward to police, to regulators, to hear their case of what has been happening for decades in the sector.
Patricia: So, you’re pleasantly surprised, but what more do you want to see?
Denita: Well, it’s now up to the federal government to respond. We’ve welcomed Minister Burke’s comments that he’s looking at all avenues of what he can do. Certainly, we have asked for not only a police investigation, but an ACCC investigation, a Fair Work Ombudsman investigation, including whether or not enterprise agreements that have been recently registered have been done so under duress. But more further, we need to look at appropriate governance arrangements for recidivist unions and officials as we’ve seen here. I’ve only just reminded myself last night of Bob Hawke’s speech when he deregistered the BLF in 1985, and it was very much a deja vu moment.
Patricia: And when you say deja vu moment, what did he say in that speech that made you think, wow, we are doing the same thing again?
Denita: Well, the Prime Minister at the time, mentioned that the disregard for the law was unacceptable, and that the thuggery and the coercion of the BLF had no place in our society. And I think that the evidence that has been put to the community through the investigative report, and what we know occurs on building sites day in day out, shows that there is a need for significant change in our industrial relations settings for the building and construction industry, which we have asked for for decades.
Patricia: You’ve asked for, but the government federally says the ABCC for instance, didn’t actually achieve much when it comes to this. Do you accept that?
Denita: The ABCC did a lot. There is a plethora of federal court cases, and there is no doubt, since the abolition of the ABCC, we have seen an increase, significant increase, of problems on sites. But our members have been too afraid, to be quite frank, to come and address those concerns with regulators because there are no protections. And one of the things that we have asked the federal government to look at is witness protection so they do not fear retribution. Which we know occurs on an ongoing basis.
Patricia: This morning, the Nine papers allege evidence was presented to the Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan 18 months ago about unlawful conduct relating to a major freeway project. She says she has zero tolerance for this sort of behaviour. So has she acted fast enough or are you worried about that evidence?
Denita: Well, we know that there’s been evidence around and politicians have not acted fast enough. Unfortunately, the linkage between Labor and the union movement has tainted, I think, the consideration of those- that evidence. But the here and now is that the federal government, the Victorian government and hopefully, New South Wales government, I know the South Australian government has also said they’d consider an investigation. They are now going to say no, enough is enough. We need change. And as I said I commend Minister Burke for what he has said today publicly, that he is looking at every opportunity of what he can do to stamp out this type of behaviour. We understand that they will not reappoint the ABCC, but we are simply asking for an additional governance mechanisms by the Fair Work Ombudsman, so they can actually hold to account bad behaviour by recidivists officials and unions if necessary. Because at the moment, there is insufficient powers of governance of those who have a disdain for our industrial relations laws, competition laws, and general criminal laws.
Patricia: Do you want a Royal Commission, a national Royal Commission into the CFMEU?
Denita: Master Builders doesn’t want another royal commission. We’ve already had four, the last one was in 2015, where a lot of these issues were addressed. The Royal Commission in 2015 made a series of recommendations, we are simply asking for action. No more royal commissions. We just want regulators and police doing their jobs and being resourced effectively enough. And if the law is not sufficient, new laws, which we’ve also asked for. So, we’re seeking regulators with resourcing to do their jobs. And more laws to govern those who are not acting in the accordance of what is appropriate in our society, to represent the interests of workers and employers.
Patricia: And you mentioned, in the last minute we have, the deregistration under the former Hawke government of the BLF. Do you want to see the deregistration of this union?
Denita: Many of our members want to see deregistration, but our concern is we’ll just see another rise of another union with no laws governing its operations just like we’ve seen the CFMEU rise out of the ashes of the BLF. Our view is much stronger laws need to be implemented for any unions that undertake a disregard for the law. And that is what is needed to be urgently addressed in the spring sittings of the federal government. We certainly are of the view that, worst case scenario, you deregister, but let’s put in a lot of laws first, for appropriate governance of these unions that are having a disregard for the law, but it’s more than industrial law. Competition law here has also been disregarded and we need to look at that as well.
Patricia: Thank you, Denita. Denita Wawn is the chief executive of Master Builders Australia.
Media contact:
Dee Zegarac
National Director, Media & Public Affairs
0400 493 071
dee.zegarac@masterbuilders.com.au