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Date: 24 January 2025, 8:50am am AEDT
Speakers: Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia
Topics: Apprenticeship incentives; housing crisis
E&OE
James O’Loghlin, ABC Radio Sydney: Now, do you know how much an apprentice is paid? It’s not that much. It’s often less than the minimum wage, but they work really hard. It might be contributing to a shortfall of tradies in this country, which could get a lot worse and have effects down the track. Anthony Albanese has announced a policy that will attempt to turn that around, $10,000 cash bonus, not cash. A $10,000 Electronic Funds Transfer bonus doesn’t really have the same ring, but nonetheless, for apprentices who work in residential construct, the residential construction industry. But why is it so hard to retain them in the first place? We’re joined by Denita Wawn, the Master Builders Association, CEO. Very good morning to you.
Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia: Good morning, James.
James: Now the PM is saying that this is a $10,000 injection. So, if you sign up to be a tradie and you keep going over the period of the four-year apprenticeship, you’ll get an extra $10,000 but do building apprentices already get a sum at the moment?
Denita: Certainly, at the moment, we have a situation where you get fee-free TAFE. You get payment while you’re being trained. Some apprentices at the moment get the $10,000 over the life of their apprenticeship. This announcement today now expands that into all residential construction trades. So, brickies, carpenters, joiners and plumbers now join electricians and HVAC apprentices in being able to access the $10,000, on top of their wages that they get while they’re training.
James: Right so, it’s an extra $10,000 for all of them?
Denita: That’s right, and it’s because there’s such an acute skill shortage at a time when we’re in a massive housing crisis. If we don’t meet the 1.2 million target over five years that the governments of all levels have agreed to, then we’re only going to see a worsening of our housing shortage. So, it is critical that we have the people to actually undertake the work.
James: What are the current wages for a building apprentice? I mean, there’s a number of different trades, and it changes every year, but just give us an overview.
Denita: Yeah. Look, I think a really good example is you could be getting around about, as a first-year apprentice, around about, depending on your age and so forth, between sort of the $15 to $18 an hour, and remember, as well as super and so forth. Now that is, of course, when you are training and first year apprentices, while it’s fantastic to have them on board, they have no expertise. A lot of the time they are simply shadowing someone who is a, you know, a skilled, licensed tradie. So, as a consequence, your wages as an apprentice continue to ramp up during your apprenticeship. Now that’s if you’re under 21 if you’re a mature age apprentice, you get immediately minimum adult wages, and sometimes, of course, employers pay more than the award minimum. So, we say, when you look at that, coupled with the service, the incentives the government gives, that’s a far better position that you’re in after four years than a massive HECS debt after a four-year degree to university. We’ve got to consider that.
James: It’s tricky, because you compare it to two things, you can say, gee, that’s really bad for a full-time job, you know, but on the other hand, you can see it as study and saying you’re getting paid to study. So, it’s kind of hybrid work-study. Someone texted in earlier, you know, university students don’t get paid, why should apprentices? But it is, it is very, it’s different from that, because you are providing value to your employer, albeit less than you will when you fully qualified.
Denita: That’s a really good observation, James. And certainly, we see apprentices now saying, well, I can get paid to study. I can save money already, and I know I’ve got a career at the end of it, and I know I’ll be paid well as a qualified trades person. And a big issue that we’ve got to grapple with at the moment is a lot of apprentices start, but they don’t complete. Only 50 per cent is our completion rate across the country at the moment. So, we hope this $10,000 helps them stay in their trade and not be attracted to short term, high paying labouring costs, when they’ll be much better in the long term, to have completed their trade and have a license to continue to do that throughout their career.
James: Are you aware of why there is such a high non-completion rate?
Denita: There’s many reasons, and that’s part of the more deeper dive we’ll be doing with the Skills Minister as they release the apprentice review paper today, we know that we don’t provide enough support for apprentices when they really hit that three-year mark, when training becomes a bit more technical. You need to make sure you’ve got your math skills, and of course, you’re being attracted to do labouring jobs at a higher pay. That is why we’re really supportive of the group training model that provides mentors and so forth, on top of the support you get from employers. We also know that we only have four per cent of our trades people are women, so we’re not attracting the 50 per cent of the population. So, there are a plethora of issues that the industry still needs to tackle in conjunction with government and educators. And today is a good start, but more needs to be done.
James: Tell me if you, tell me if you think this is silly. When you’re 17, 10,000 bucks is a lot of money, and you think, right, I’m thinking of doing an apprenticeship or maybe doing some study. But for the apprenticeship, I get 10,000 bucks over four years, over the course of a 40-year career. $10,000 is kind of nothing. Do you know what I mean? It’s like a few hundred bucks a year. So, I’m just worried that people might be influenced to make career decisions are going to affect them for 40 years by a sugar hit up front, is that being silly?
Denita: Look, I think, I think James, that the kids are savvy, and they will see the $10,000 that they can put towards, for example, buying, you know, a ute. So once, you know they can then put, and buying towards tools and so forth. It’s once you have got your apprenticeship and you want to, and you’re fully qualified, it takes a bit of money to set yourself up with the adequate, you know, services and tools that you need. So, I think a lot of kids are seeing it in that light. Certainly, my son, who’s just signed up as a school-based apprenticeship, he was very, very keen to hear about that $10,000 and that’s all about helping him towards purchasing a car and buying his tools.
James: Someone asked, could you ask if it is taxable? If it is, they will lose half. They won’t lose half. They’re not in the top tax bracket.
Denita: Well, that’s right, they’re not in the tax bracket. But no, this is not taxable. This is an additional funding that they will get through the duration, in instalments, through the duration of their apprenticeship. So, you will not get the full $10,000 until you complete. And I think that comes to the issue, James, of some people are seeing huge amounts of money going out labouring in, say, civil construction jobs, you know, paid really well. But unfortunately, if you don’t get that qualification behind you, you’re not in a strong position longer term. So that’s why we’re trying to encourage people to complete, get their trade behind them, and they’re in a really strong position for the remainder of their lives.
James: Thank you very much, Denita, lovely to talk to you this morning.
Denita: Pleasure, thank you.
James: That’s Denita Wawn, from the Master Builders Association. She is the CEO.
Media contact:
Dee Zegarac
National Director, Media & Public Affairs
0400 493 071
dee.zegarac@masterbuilders.com.au