Interview with Bridget Brennan and Emma Rebellato, ABC News Breakfast

Event: Interview with Bridget Brennan and Emma Rebellato, ABC News Breakfast
Date: 18 July 2024, 8:24am AEST
Speakers: Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia
Topics: CFMEU investigation
E&OE

Bridget Brennan, host ABC News Breakfast: Let’s go back to one of our top stories now and more on the wider fallout from the CFMEU allegations. Master Builders Australia’s CEO Denita Wawn joins us now live in the studio. Good morning.

Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia: Good morning.

Bridget: What’s your response to all of these allegations, or, well, revelations really, that are unfolding each day?

Denita: Unfortunately, this was no secret in the building and construction industry. We were aware, we’d heard the rumours, we’d seen firsthand some of the problems that were being experienced by our members, by people working in the sector. So, it’s something that we have pushed for a long period of time and it’s sad that it’s taken an investigative journalism to bring all of this out. Something that we have been highlighting for a long period of time. But unfortunately, many people were too scared for fear of reprisals if they went forward to regulators, to police, and so forth. So, it’s been a toxic culture for a long time. We are very thankful that it’s now out in the open and that we’re actually starting to get some action.

Emma Rebellato, host ABC News Breakfast: But if these bodies, some of these companies, were scared of coming forward, clearly you knew something was going on, you heard rumours, did you not then try and speak to other unions or police or authorities?

Denita: We did all of that, and we have been saying for years now that there were problems, that it was toxic, that there were criminal elements, but people, unfortunately, within the regulators and so forth, they attempted to do so. There’s been a series of investigations after, for example, the 2015 Royal Commission and they could not get enough evidence to substantiate the proper legal cases. So this issue has been going for a long time. We haven’t been able to get the appropriate evidence to bring to account. So, really, now it’s about action, but it’s also about what have been the restrictions of law, both in terms of the requirements under law, but also the whistleblower protections, about how we actually can encourage people to come forward as opposed to this happening in the dark for too long.

Bridget: Long when you say people were frightened to bring allegations forward or they were frightened to do something, perhaps more formal. What were they frightened of? What kind of reprisals were people worried about?

Denita: People have been concerned about their livelihoods, about missing out on business, about having to shut their business down from fear of not being in the favour of the union. But there’s also been fear of their own lives. We know for a fact that there have been evidence of bullying and thuggery, but even about people having their lives in threat. And that is incredibly scary for anyone. And there’s clear evidence of that. So they don’t want to come forward. They’re too afraid and so they try and work within the system or they leave the system.

Emma: We’ve heard this morning that the Minister, Tony Burke, has written to the Fair Work Ombudsman to take a look at some enterprise agreements. As well, we’ve got this independent administrator which is set to be appointed. Is that enough in your view?

Denita: No. It’s a start, it’s a good start, but it’s not enough. We want the Fair Work Commission to do whatever they can. The Fair Work Ombudsman to do whatever they can. The police to do whatever they can. But we also want the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to look at anti-competitive behaviour including cartel-like behaviour. But we actually say there needs to be more. There needs to be more law about the accountability of union officials. We need a strong building regulator. But that’s not just about industrial relations law, it’s about competition law, it’s about criminal behaviour and we are of the view at the moment that we need to actually look at this holistically, as the investigations continue by the regulators and say, what is the best for the industry because this arises every couple of decades and so we need more oversight and a holistic way.

Emma: Denita Wawn from Master Builders. Thanks for joining us this morning on News Breakfast.

Denita: Thank you.

Media contact:
Dee Zegarac
National Director, Media & Public Affairs
0400 493 071
dee.zegarac@masterbuilders.com.au