Interview with Bob Murphy and Sharnelle Vella, ABC Melbourne Radio

Date: 24 January 2025, 7:10am AEDT
Speakers: Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia
Topics:  Key Apprentices Program; housing crisis; skilled migration

E&OE

Bob Murphy, host ABC Melbourne Radio: A morning of observations and questions and the next one I’ve got for you, Sharnelle, and our loyal listeners, would you like the government to pay you $10,000 on top of your normal salary, just for doing your job? Probably a universal yes on that one. If you’re an apprentice tradie, you might be in luck. Today, the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese will make an election promise to give apprentices working in housing construction more cash, more cash to the tune of $10,000. We’ve got Denita Wawn with us this morning, CEO of Master Builders Australia, Denita, good morning.

Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia: Good morning to you both.

Bob: So, what can you tell us about this injection of cash for tradies in Australia?

Denita: Well, this is great news. We have a skill shortage and if we’re going to build the 1.2 million homes that we need over the next five years, we need more skilled people. And part of our problem at the moment is we simply don’t have enough tradies. And so, the issue for us is not only getting people into the trade but completing. So, the really important part of this $10,000 is actually, it’s not upfront, it’s through the duration of the apprenticeship, including completion. And so that is an incentive for people to stay. There’s a range of barriers to entry and completion at the moment, but this is a really good start from our perspective in encouraging people to consider a career in the industry.

Sharnelle Vella, host ABC Melbourne Radio: In Victoria, there is a goal from the state government to build 800,000 homes over 10 years. It’s 80,000 a year. At the moment it sits around, if my memory is correct, around the 60 – 70,000 mark. I don’t think they’ve ever actually reached 80,000. Would this bonus put enough tradies on the ground to meet those kinds of numbers?

Denita: Unfortunately, not, because if we don’t have skilled people working here and now, we’re not going to meet those numbers. So, the estimate is that if we don’t get at least, you know, another couple of hundred thousand working over the next, say, three years, we won’t achieve it. Now, that’s of course, Australia wide numbers. So, the issue around ensuring that we not only have enough people to build now, but into our future, is more complicated than just simply more apprentices. We need people to return back into the industry, we need to look at skilled migration, and so forth. Nevertheless, when you think about an apprenticeship, you get paid to train. You won’t have a HECS debt. You will now get $10,000 if you work in our sector. And of course, you get a fantastic career that is well paid. When I look at that in comparison to some uni, post-uni, post-graduate uni wages and a big hex debt, I know where I’d be encouraging my kids at the moment.

Bob: Denita, are these funds across all trades, or are they targeted more at the, perhaps the trades that we have more distinct shortage on?

Denita: Very much targeted. So, at the moment, this existing, $10,000 already exists for electricians and mechanical plumbers, HVAC and so forth. This is now an extension of those critical skill shortages, and we understand it will cover things such as carpenters, plumbers and so forth. So, for us, it’s those critical skills that we know we need now into the future. And of course, we’ve got to recognise that if we’re going to resolve this housing crisis, this is not also just about our houses, but it’s also the roads to get to new housing developments. It’s about the social infrastructure we need, our schools, our hospitals and so forth. So, we have a very large task ahead of us, and we need as many people into the industry. So, this is a significant boost, and we very much support the government’s election commitment.

Sharnelle: Denita Wawn is the CEO of Master Builders Australia and is being very generous with her time. I’m wondering about, I know earlier I asked you about the state-based target of 800,000 homes, There’s a federal government target as well of 1.2 million homes by 2029. Can that be met?

Denita: If we continue to build the number of homes we’re building at the moment, no, we will fall short. So, at the moment we’re forecasting, over the five-year period, we’ll fall about 200,000 short of that 1.2. But if you look at the current building rates, the forecasts then become worse and would be a decline of about 350,000 homes. So, the critical issue for us at the moment is getting two things happening. One is the skill shortages, but also with the economy stagnant, with inflation high, with interest rates stunningly staying at that higher rate, we’re not seeing private investment into building. Whether it’s homes, but more importantly, medium and high density living, there’s simply, the numbers do not stack up for development at the moment. And so, for us, the big debate around the election is not just going to be on the skills, but it’s going to be on economic conditions that facilitate private investment into housing.

Sharnelle: One of the conversations that is had a lot in Victoria is around tradies and apprentices ending up on those big build sites, on the major projects, and not building homes. What I want to know from you is, do you believe that’s true, and how do you how do you keep them into the smaller housing projects? I say smaller, I know they’re still quite large, but away from the major infrastructure projects.

Denita: This is a big challenge that we’ve got in the industry at the moment, we need to build as many things as possible to meet our population increases. So, we can’t have homes without streets to get to them, but equally we need to house our people. And in some instances, I actually hear of stories of people that normally work in commercial construction going into resi because the shortages are so acute that the money is pretty good. So, this is the issue that is confronting us. A huge amount of building happening across the country, both city and regional, and that is very unusual. And so normally, there’s fluctuations geographically that you can accommodate the skill needs. That’s not the case at the moment, and so everyone is experiencing shortages of labour. But equally, we’re seeing some things come off because there’s not enough money in the, at the moment in terms of investment of new building. So, we’ve got to get all aspects of our conditions right to ensure that we can be doing and meeting those targets.

Bob: Denita, we’ve got a text from our audience: “Morning. I’m 56, need a new career. Can I apply?”

Denita: Oh, yes, please. Age is no barrier, and certainly we see a lot of mature age people starting a trade. Interestingly enough, the average entry age of women into the industry is in their 30s. They see it as a second, you know, a second career. So, no, I encourage you to reach out to an apprentice centre and start those conversations. Absolutely.

Bob: Thank you so much, Denita. Denita Wawn, CEO of Master Builders Australia.

Media contact:
Dee Zegarac
National Director, Media & Public Affairs
0400 493 071
dee.zegarac@masterbuilders.com.au