Interview with Bill Woods, 2GB

Event: Interview with Bill Woods, 2GB

Date: 15 April 2026, 12.40pm AEDT
Speakers: Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia

Topics: CFMEU

E&OE

Bill Woods, 2GB Host: The Queensland Inquiry into the CFMEU resumed yesterday, and a former construction boss had some interesting things to say. I must say nothing we haven’t heard before, but significant that in 2026 we’re still saying it. Nigel Hadgkiss is a former boss of the Australian Building and Construction Commission. He told the Inquiry that a robust Building Code of Practice was required to deal with the problems this Inquiry has exposed. The Inquiry had previously heard some sensational evidence of criminal infiltration, bullying and corruption in the Queensland Construction Industry. Mr Hadgkiss has said because contractors were reliant on work from the Government, they were unable to challenge the union’s power on site and I quote, until a building contractor is more frightened of the regulator than he is of the union, there’ll be no reform. That said, I’d like to introduce Denita Wawn, CEO of the Master Builders Association. Good afternoon Denita.

Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia: Good afternoon.

Host: Thanks for your time. I know we’ve had a few of these conversations over the years.  Look different states have had their clashes with the CFMEU. Is this just a Queensland issue now, or do these problems remain elsewhere in Australia?

Denita: Well, I think it’s really important to note that the Federal Government, 18 months ago, put in the CFMEU nationally into administration. So those officials that were overseeing the bullying, the corruption, and so forth that is evident in the Commission of Inquiry in Queensland are gone. We now have an Administrator in place that is cleaning up the Union, and we say that is a good first step on what should be a series of measures implemented while the Union is in administration. Bill, need I remind our listeners, this is not the first time we’ve had a problem in building and construction. It’s 40 years this month that the BLF was deregistered. So, we’ve got to learn from the past and look at ways to ensure that this doesn’t yet again repeat itself in the future.

Host: I was only reminiscing this morning, one of the first national television interviews I did way back when was with John Halfpenny actually, and you know, in some ways, you’d think we would progress from those days. And look, Mr. Hadgkiss has painted a picture of a union dominated workplace. As you say, this is certainly referring to things that have happened in the past. There have been measures taken, but I just want to know, how is the relationship between worker and employer now, and what more do we need to do?

Denita: I think it’s important that generally, things have quietened down. The Administrator assures us that the cleaning up of the Union is near end, and he is now into rebuilding the Union to be a law abiding one, and there is a lot of work to do. We say that there should be no consideration of the administration arrangements being lifted until the full time has prevailed, which is five years, and we’re about 18 months into that. But more needs to be done to mitigate risks of this reoccurring once administration is lifted and that includes things like putting together a super agency to ensure that criminal behaviour and competitive behaviour and breaches of industrial relations are looked at in totality. One of the things that was a missing piece of the puzzle was that we simply did not see enough action by police and the competition regulators, along with the IR regulators, really enforcing the law, and part of that is simply because people were not willing participants to give evidence. So, we need to change the culture to ensure people’s safety is paramount when they need to call out this type of behaviour.

Host: Now we’ve heard in the Inquiry, and that’s some of the extreme stuff, the corruption and bullying and all those things, but there are other things that are basically just workplace practices that could be streamlined. Now we know that in Queensland, for example, daily hour-long briefings before work started, a weekly two-hour safety briefing and a weekly two-hour union meeting, all paid for by the contractors. They’ve scrapped those apparently, but are we still facing workplace hurdles that are going to be harder to root out, not the more you know, outrageous stuff, but just basic stuff that costs the entire economy,

Denita: Absolutely Bill. I mean, I think the Queensland Productivity Commission committee report recently identified in Queensland alone that we were only getting about three to three and a half days’ worth of work on building and construction sites in Queensland. That is not dissimilar elsewhere on the Eastern Seaboard. So, there are key clauses that we say need to become more flexible. These set RDOs, where you literally have 10 days straight between post and after Easter, for example, where building sites are not being built on. Extreme ways upon which we stop when there is inclement weather. Of course, you’ve got to stop when there’s inclement weather but returning far more quickly back onto site once those issues have been resolved. There’s of course, issues in respect to Union having say over which subcontractors or head contractor uses. So, they are the issues that we continually say need to be addressed. They need to be addressed either in agreement with the Union, or we would prefer to see them established in a code that ensures us that those productivity sapping measures simply do not return. They are still there in place, but I give credit to the Administrator. He has asked his people on the ground not to be so belligerent in the use of those provisions that are currently still in place, and we are seeing some productivity uplift in Queensland as a consequence.

Host: Now, look, while you’re there, Denita, we’ve had a text from Steven. And I have no idea what basis there is for this text, but he just says, look, in Sydney, they’re doing bugger all, basically, notwithstanding what’s happening in Queensland. I mean, do you think that’s a fair comment?

Denita: I think we’ve seen a clean out a lot of the officials in New South Wales. It’s disappointing that some of those officials have come up in working for other union related entities, which is not consistent with the intent of the Removed Persons Provision. The Union has a place in representing its workers, but not to the extent to which it means that we can’t get on with the job of building. So, you know, there is work that has been done in New South Wales and Victoria and Queensland and so forth, but as I stressed, the Administrator has still got an awful lot of work to do. He’s done that initial cleaning up, there’s a lot of rebuilding and restructuring to get a better culture out of that Union as we go forward

Host: And look productivity broadly is such a crucial point again. I mean, it always is, but particularly now, because after the COVID problems we had, we’ve now got the Middle East crisis and supply issues again, which is a shame because it looks like we’re only just getting back on track from the last problems. So, the cost of building in Australia is a big factor. We talked to the Housing Industry Association about this on Monday, so we really need to streamline the process as best we can so that everyone wins.

Denita: That’s right. I mean, we’ve seen costs of up to 50 per cent increases in building and construction, whether it’s large commercial, high-rise apartments, right through to our detached homes. They’ve increased by 50 per cent over the last five years, and we’ve seen productivity decline by 20 per cent over the last 10 years. That’s just simply unacceptable when we’ve just got so much building to do around the country, there are a range of initiatives that we say to Federal Government, particularly where we’ve got the federal budget coming up in the next couple of weeks, there are things they can be doing to resolve productivity, even while we’re dealing face on to this conflict when it comes to diesel and petrochemical related products.

Host: And just to be fair, before I let you go, we’ve given the unions a ride old belting, and they certainly deserve it, but in the tendering process and the construction process generally, you touched on it earlier, corrupt practices when it comes to awarding tenders, for example, to subcontractors, that’s not necessarily union influenced either at times. I mean, are you keeping a lid on that stuff as well? Because that also can blow out costs.

Denita: It can indeed, and it’s really important that there is appropriate and compliant behaviour of all actors in the building and supply chain. We’re cognisant that some of this behaviour wasn’t necessarily driven just by union officials and delegates. It was also about criminal activity, monopolistic activity, by people in the industry. We say to regulators, regardless of who they are, you’ve got to hold the bad actors to account. Stop putting in new regulation that creates a hamstrung in those doing the right things. Let’s hold those who are doing the wrong thing by account. Let’s make sure that we stamp out any of those corrupt behaviours, those cartel type behaviours, those criminal elements out of the industry once and for all and that’s why we’re pushing for a range of measures over and above the administration of the CFMEU.

Host: Quick one on the text line before we go. What about union organisers on Government recruitment panels? That’s all that says, no name.

Denita: Look, I think the issue about material conflicts of interest needs to be addressed by Government in their procurement processes. We would say that you need full independence on any of those panels, and as such, anyone related to a union or, for that matter, someone like me at Master Builders should not be in those positions of decision making at Government level.

Host: Well said, Denita Wawn, thank you. Thank you for taking those questions off the text line, off the cuff too. Really appreciate your time and best of luck.

Denita: Pleasure, thanks Bill as always.

Host: Denita Wawn, CEO of the Master Builders.

Media contact: Dylan Hafey, Media Advisor

0497 330 064 |  dylan.hafey@masterbuilders.com.au