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Event: Interview with Steve Cananne, ABC Radio National
Date: 27 August 2024, 7.50am AEST
Speakers: Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia
Topics: CFMEU rallies
E&OE
Steve Cananne, host ABC Radio National: Steve Cananne with you on RN Breakfast. Police are warning of major disruptions across the country today as CFMEU members are expected to strike in protest at the union’s forced administration. Union members are expected to walk off major construction sites, and head to organised rallies, which may be considered unlawful industrial action. Denita Wawn is the Chief Executive Officer of the Master Builders Association and joins me now. Denita, thanks for your time.
Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia: Good morning.
Steve: What’s the scenario on the ground as it stands right now this morning?
Denita: I think it’s the calm before the storm. We are hoping to get more reports as the morning progresses, but certainly we understand that, given there are at least six rallies planned for throughout the country this morning, that we will see significant disruption on building sites. This has been organised by some dissatisfied by the CFMEU administration decision, but also by other building unions, which is disappointing, given that they are in defiance of a decision by Parliament. So, we’re concerned about the disruption on building sites, and ultimately, the concern around another day lost in industrial action that could result in liquidated damages to builders.
Steve: So you don’t think they have a right to walk off site as part in part of a democracy to show what they think of a decision made by the government?
Denita: Absolutely we all have a right to protest. The question is whether it is done lawfully. There is some provisions within the Fair Work Act that determines what is lawful and unlawful industrial action. This may well come under the unlawful, you do need authorisation to leave your workplace, and an employer cannot unreasonably withhold that opportunity for a worker if they take annual leave to do so. So, there are some Fair Work provisions there that we all need to comply with, and we have advised our members accordingly.
Steve: It is 7:52, that’s, you know, nearly an hour after most building sites open up, you’re not seeing any walkouts so far?
Denita: Well, not as yet, not that I’ve heard. But certainly, things could well be undertaking as we speak, the rallies are to commence at 11 o’clock. So we’ll have a better idea around mid-morning as to what is happening on the work sites. So that is something that we’ll continue to keep abreast of as the morning progresses.
Steve: And how widespread do you think this walkout will be?
Denita: Well, we’re concerned there have been social media promoting at least six cities to have these rallies. And certainly, it has been widely promoted, not just by some within the CFMEU, but also other building unions as well. And we note that the new administrator of the CFMEU is not promoting it and has said it is not being promoted by the new administration of the CFMEU. So certainly, our concern is that it could be widespread, and that is not only disruption to our sites, but also to the community at large, in terms of those cities that are going to be covered by this rally; which is all capital cities on the mainland, with the exception of Darwin, that we understand.
Steve: Can you understand why there may be anger among certain union members? They wanted to challenge this forced administration in the courts. They weren’t able to do that because the government pushed legislation through.
Denita: Well, certainly we can understand there’s a reason why there is frustration, absolutely. But the alternative to administration was likely to be deregistration of the union, that would not have been in the workers’ interests. So there has been ongoing concern, four Royal Commissions that have said, the CFMEU continues to act unlawfully on many occasions, that they need to be brought to account. There are ongoing investigations by a myriad of regulators and law enforcement at the moment. It was critical that the democratic right of the union to continue to operate was upheld, as was the case with this legislation with the administrator. The administrator is saying he will ensure that their rights and their voices are heard, but in a lawful manner, just like every other union that we have in this country. That is the key difference that we’re trying to ensure that we can get on productively between employers and workers in the building industry.
Steve: On ABC Radio National. It is five minutes to eight o’clock, and we’re talking to Denita Wawn, CEO of the Masters Builders Association. Denita, it is a fact, isn’t it, that industry cooperated with unions, the CFMEU for years and struck deals with them. Do they, does the industry need to actually have a look at themselves if we’re suddenly shining a light on a CFMEU as well?
Denita: I think there’s been different approaches to dealing with the CFMEU in different states, but nevertheless, we have said repeatedly and to government as well, that the industry itself needs to change its toxic culture. And that includes the employers and Master Builders is part of that process to ensure we are getting the best out of our industry, that we can employ as many people as possible, that we’re seen as an employer of choice. And that means everyone has to act lawfully. But the nature of the industry is such, the way we operate, we need special laws, we need special regulators to ensure that anti-competitive behaviours and criminal activity is upheld and enforced. And that is why Master Builders is pushing for a special regulator for our industry that looks at criminal activity, competition law, industrial relations law, and that is not just for unions, but that is for everyone within the building supply chain.
Steve: You’re on the way to a meeting with your members at the Master Builders Association; what will you be discussing there and what are the ongoing effects in the industry of this disruption in the sector?
Denita: Well, certainly we’ll be looking at what intelligence is on the ground, the impact today, but really the focus for us this week is how we as an employer group can work constructively with regulators as they are ongoing with these investigations, ow we can work constructively with the administrator of the CFMEU, and how we can improve the industry going forward during the period of administration. That will be our focus for the coming weeks, but certainly today, we need to ensure that we have minimal disruption, that if people want to protest, then they do so in a lawful manner, and they do it in a way that does not adversely impact the community around them.
Steve: Will they be docked their pay if they walk out today?
Denita: That certainly is an option for the employers, and they have that right to do so if it is deemed unlawful action, and that is something that is a decision for management on each building site.
Steve: And what is the likely broader fallout of this walkout? Do you think what are the knock on effects you’re expecting to see?
Denita: Well our, certainly, concern is whether or not this is going to be ongoing disruption to the industry as the administrator establishes himself and all of his new support staff, as we look at putting the CFMEU into administration. So our concern is that this does not continue over coming days, that we acknowledge that an administrator is in place, we work collaboratively with them, and we ensure that the industry is building. We have a target of 1.2 million homes over five years. Many of those will need to be high rise buildings in our CBDs and we do not need this disruption, so we can build those homes for all Australians.
Steve: Denita Wawn, thanks for your time this morning.
Denita: Pleasure.
Steve: Thank you, Denita Wawn, CEO of the Master Builders Association, talking there about potential walkouts going on today.
Media contact:
Dee Zegarac
National Director, Media & Public Affairs
0400 493 071
dee.zegarac@masterbuilders.com.au