Interview with Susan Graham-Ryan, ABC Queensland Mornings

Event: Interview with Susan Graham-Ryan, ABC Queensland Mornings

Date: 20 August 2024, 9.10am AEST
Speakers: Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia
Topics: CFMEU Administration

Susan Graham-Ryan, host ABC North Queensland: Are you planning or have you begun major building or renovations projects for your home? Well, laws forcing the CFMEU, the nation’s construction union, to accept administration has passed the Senate now. You’ll hear updates on that, of course, across the day in our news updates. But how will this upheaval of the CFMEU impact you? Denita Wawn is the CEO of Master Builders Australia. I asked her how this new CFMEU legislation will impact the construction sector.

Denita Wawn, CEO Master Builders Australia: It will be significant when we get that administrator in place, which will be in the coming weeks. This will mean that officials that have led the lawlessness and problems on building sites for decades will be stripped of their roles, that new leadership will come into play, and the administrator will be required to ensure that the CFMEU is operating as a lawful union, as all other unions are in this country. We then hope that means we have calm in the industry so we can get on and build all of the schools, the roads and the homes that we need around the country.

Susan: For a lot of people who might be in the process of building or planning building projects or renos, it, there’s a lot of uncertainty for them as well. What will it mean for people who are in that process or planning to be?

Denita: I think there’s two key issues. One is that we’ve got a shortage, a tradie shortage, in our sector, and in part that has been because people have been concerned about the unionisation of particularly our high rise construction. Certainly, we hope that by having a union that respects the law will mean people are going to be more interested in joining the industry and resolve those shortages that we know are impacting the costs of building. I think the other important issue is that we know that union behavior and pattern agreements means that our high rise residential buildings are 30 per cent higher in cost and are taking nearly a third longer, from two years to three years, and that is in part because of the activities of the union on site. So, we’re hoping that we can see, not immediately, but certainly in the next 12 to 18 months, a reduction in some of those costs that are really prohibiting people getting into the housing market.

Susan: The CFMEU has rejected that they’re responsible for those claims about the extended building times and also the increased costs. What actions do you claim that the CFMEU are taking that is causing these increased costs?

Denita: Well, the biggest issue we have is that the CFMEU have historically forced, in many instances, enterprise agreements on builders that really restrict productivity, it restricts competition, and it certainly means that the building takes much longer because of those practices. And there are about five or six clauses in those pattern agreements that really create difficulties on site. Then on top of that, you also have the thuggery, the bullying behaviour, the stoppages of work that also occurs if the union is of the view that the contractor is not doing things the way they want them to. And so again, we have more stoppages. All of those things have to be costed into a building. If you know it’s going to take three or four months longer than it should, that you know you’re going to have a lot of stoppages, it costs more money, and that means that’s going to be passed on to the consumer. That is what’s been happening. We’ve undertaken numerous economic modelling that all say that anywhere between 20 to 30 per cent of cost increases are because of the union activity. That means we’ve got less productivity and higher costs.

Susan: You’re hearing from Denita Wawn, the CEO of Master Builders Australia. This is all coming at a time where Australia, Queensland, is desperate for more housing. What is needed to get more houses in the regions that need them?

Denita: Well, I think the big issue for us is now working continually with governments at both the federal and state level, the need for houses is not just about the CFMEU, it’s about making sure that we have adequate land. Land that has the right critical infrastructure in it before we can actually go and build. We need more tradies to come and build the homes that we need, whether it’s high rise residential or suburban homes or undertaking significant renovations. So we need to get all of the parameters right for us to build the 1.2 million homes that is the target of all governments around the country. And this is a significant step, the administration of the CFMEU, in resolving some of the supply constraints that we’ve had. But it’s the first step, and it’s certainly not the only issue that we need to address.

Susan: Those labour shortages are really debilitating, especially in regional, rural and remote parts of Queensland. How are we plugging those labour shortages?

Denita: Well, certainly from Master Builders’ perspective, we believe there are a number of issues that we need to address. And first and foremost, it’s around more apprentices. It’s around a specialist tradie visa that we’re promoting to government, and also it’s encouraging the other half of the working population, females, into our sector. We only employ 14 per cent of our workforce are women, only four per cent of tradies. So we need to also encourage women, and I hope that this force of administration on the CFMEU also encourages more women into the sector as well.

Susan: Now, I’m sure a lot of people are hoping that after quite a tumultuous time, the dust will settle. No doubt there’ll be plenty of change in that time. What’s next for the construction sector?

Denita: Well, certainly we want to see stability in the industry. After this turmoil over the last month, there have been issues that we have been fighting for decades. The industry is, a sigh of relief today, seeing that legislation get through, the big issue for us now, while the builders are seeking to build and reduce costs, is really working on the long term solutions about how best to get as much productivity out of our industry as possible. We’ve had a decline significantly, and we need to be working collaboratively, from the entire supply chain, to make sure we reduce those costs and we also ensure that the culture is far more conducive to encouraging people into the sector. That is our leadership role, and certainly, we will need government support in, as we approach these significant changes for the sector. But the big issue at the moment is building those homes.

Susan: That is, Denita Wawn, the CEO of Master Builders Australia. The CFMEU representatives have been contacted for comment.

Media contact:
Dee Zegarac
National Director, Media & Public Affairs
0400 493 071